Which character do you hate (or dislike) -and why-?

Originally Posted by Kero_Faria

That stupid Spinner ate everything and Sakura blamed Kero....I was relly glad to see him being blasted away with Kero's fire at the end in that episode (Spinning Out of Control).

Me too!!! I totally hate spinner!!! He doesn't really have anything to do...

[Hyatt]

Okay, since you seem to have missed my point...

I said "Kaho is an acceptable target" out of disgust for her getting all the hate for an action that was all but decided for her. Clow created the Moon Bell just so it could be used by a daughter of Tsukimine Shrine to give Sakura a second chance. It wasn't fair, true, but not because of Kaho, but because Clow was pulling all the strings the whole time. And really, what would you have preferred Kaho to do? Not use the Bell? By the anime and the manga, that would've been it; the Cards would've been released again, probably faded as Clow's magic wore out, and everyone would've forgotten their feelings of love, including Sakura and Syaoran? If she'd used it for someone else, including Syaoran? They probably wouldn't have been able to a. defeat Yue without hurting him more (if they could even defeat him); b. generate enough magical power to transform and support all the Cards and both Guardians (remember, Sakura was just barely able to, and she ended up being more powerful than Clow); and c. win the respect and friendship of the Cards and Guardians (which is what Clow wanted most of all).

*deep breath* In short? Think before you bash.

[Hyatt]

Some people hates her. Why? Bcoz [sic] she luvs [sic] Li and for that reason she totally hates Sakura at the beginning?

And those people are being short-sighted by ignoring Meiling's changing attitude towards Sakura and her willingness to give Syaoran up to her. And as you say, if any of the bashers would do the same as Meiling, but still bash her for doing so anyway, they're being pretty hypocritical. At least Meiling has the good grace to see past the petty issues to like the person beneath.

But that seemed to be an unfair decision nomatter [sic] how you put it and that's why I despise her.

So, you hate her... because she was forced to help someone cheat instead of letting a lot of really bad things happen. Instead of, say, pitying her for having to make that choice in the first place.

Empathy for the characters you hate isn't a bad thing, really. Try putting yourself in their place, for whatever reason you hate them for, and see if it's still so easy to bash them.

As for Sakura being more powerful than Clow, that's explicitly stated in the manga. Demonstrated, too, as she was able to cast a spell on Eriol, the one that split his magic and gave half to Fujitaka (which, it's implied, Clow was unable to do). She needed the additional power boost to reach that level, but it seems her own power grows proportionally to each Card she transforms, and Light and Dark were the two most powerful.

[Hyatt]

And I've explained the fallacies in your reasons for hating Kaho, which you consistently ignore. So no, I guess there never will be an end to the argument. Just my desire to keep bashing my head against a brick wall.

Read the manga. It is more explicit in matters like magic and overall has a more consistent plot because it wasn't subject to the animators throwing things in to pad out the anime's episode count. Best of all, the major "unfairness" of Kaho using the Moon Bell to help Sakura and not Syaoran is non-existent, because Syaoran doesn't have any Cards at all.

[Hyatt]

As long as you accept that I consider your reasons full of holes.

It doesn't get boring, not having Syaoran capturing Cards, because the arc doesn't drag out and get full of filler like it does in the anime. There are 17 Cards, every one is shown, and it takes just as long as the Sakura Card arc.

Originally Posted by Hyatt

As long as you accept that I consider your reasons full of holes.

It doesn't get boring, not having Syaoran capturing Cards, because the arc doesn't drag out and get full of filler like it does in the anime. There are 17 Cards, every one is shown, and it takes just as long as the Sakura Card arc.

As u can c, Hyatt... This thread about who u dislike & why... To me Kaho seemed a pretty unfair person... I don't know about Faria, but I hate this Kaho person for what she did in the Final Judgement & I've got my own reasons for hating her... And that's the end of the story!!!

[Hyatt]

I guess we have different interpretations of what the "why" in this thread is for. I'd like it to be for people to examine and discuss why someone hates a character, so that another member can comment on the explanation and maybe help the original commenter see why it's not a reason to hate the character. You, however, think it's an excuse to load on extra bashing that may or may not make sense and ignore someone else's defenses.

And I'd just like to add, if you're so annoyed by me trying to explain why "Kaho's unfair" as a reason for hating her is full of holes and unfair to her, you're just as free to explain why my reasons for disliking Tomoyo are flawed. In fact, please do.

And, for you saying that Kaho's unfair, let me pose these hypothetical situations. Suppose Kaho had used the Moon Bell to help Syaoran instead of Sakura. Well, that would be unfair to Sakura, wouldn't it? So, Kaho can't win that way. Suppose she had been "fair" and not used the Moon Bell at all. Why, then it would be her fault that nobody in Tomoeda could love, because she had the tool necessary to prevent it happening, and she refused to use it.

What I'm trying to get at is, if you're calling what Kaho did unfair, then you're implicitly calling any action she could've taken there unfair. The only way to make those actions fair is if she had no idea what the Bell could do.

One final what-if: What if it had been Clow (or Eriol, for someone who was alive) who was holding the Bell and using it? Would you direct as much vitriol at them as you do at Kaho for performing the exact same action? That's what I mean about Kaho being an "acceptable target"; any other character in her place would be forgiven, but because it's Kaho, you all feel free to bash away without even trying to empathize or think critically about the situation.

[Hyatt]

You mean all this positive talk, right? Because you seem happy to keep coming back to how much she sucks every time someone new expresses hatred of her. So I say, suck it up and deal. If you can bear to reiterate that she's unfair and you despise her, you can bear to have someone add something new to the discussion by critically examining those unfair actions of hers.

[AngelicImpulse]

I was rewatching CCS and i realised i hated Meilin x.x She's soooo bratty and annoying... just a really pointless character in my opinion xD

[MirrorCard]

My least favorite character is Tomoyo. The character with her devotion to Sakura and her incredible niceness is so fake, especially with her voice. Not to mention that her "because I like you, Sakura" moments are really creepy.

Originally Posted by Drake

What exactly does Meilin contribute to the plot, besides the fact that Sakura can make friends with anyone? She does one significant thing for the plot, and it has nothing to do with Sakura or Syaoran at all. ... Were it not for Meilin, Syaoran would've confessed his feelings to Sakura long before Ep69.

I don't know about this. Yes, she appears useless, but she was an important catalyst for S/S. Even in the clow arc, nothing about Li's behavior towards Meilin says he felt any obligation to marrying her or felt that she was in the way of him being with Sakura. Even in the manga, without Meilin, Syaoran doesn't say anything to Sakura until after the transformation of the last card. In the anime, it was Meilin who gave Li the encouragement to say something to Sakura, even after Tomoyo confronted Li on it at the beginning of the Sakura arc.

I think Meilin in the story takes control away from Tomoyo. Tomoyo does a nice job pushing this part of the story in favor of S/S. Using Meilin, it makes it look like this is not just something that Tomoyo wants and is controlling, but it is something that other people see as well.

[Hyatt]

...huh. Looks like all of Kero_Faria's posts disappeared.

In case it matters to anyone, should I edit my replies to her so they stop taking up so much room in the thread?

To make this post not spam... MirrorCard, it's interesting to see someone else who lists Tomoyo as a least favorite, though it's for different reasons than my own. I'm pretty sure I've seen the unhealthy obsession thing mentioned other places, but honestly, next to some CLAMP couples *coughX/1999cough* it seems entirely reasonable. And to her credit, she doesn't let her feelings for Sakura turn to jealousy when Sakura finds love with other people.

In the anime, it was Meilin who gave Li the encouragement to say something to Sakura, even after Tomoyo confronted Li on it at the beginning of the Sakura arc.

Hah, yes. At the pace Syaoran was going in the anime, even with Meiling's approval, prodding, and outright manipulation of events, it took him years to officially hook up with Sakura. If Meiling hadn't been there, it might've taken a decade!

[MirrorCard]

Originally Posted by Hyatt

...huh. Looks like all of Kero_Faria's posts disappeared.

In case it matters to anyone, should I edit my replies to her so they stop taking up so much room in the thread?

It did look like you were talking to yourself until I figured out that moderator action must have taken place.

Originally Posted by Hyatt

I'm pretty sure I've seen the unhealthy obsession thing mentioned other places, but honestly, next to some CLAMP couples *coughX/1999cough* it seems entirely reasonable.

I really don't follow any other anime. I just like Cardcaptors and I used to watch Pokemon. That's about it. I never hooked onto liking anime, it is just two shows with plots that I like happen to be anime.

Originally Posted by Hyatt

And to her credit, she doesn't let her feelings for Sakura turn to jealousy when Sakura finds love with other people.

That's something else that seems fake about her. Although I think her feelings for Sakura are just friendship (friends can be really close), never does she twitch when it means that Li may cut in on Tomoyo's time with Sakura.
But to be fair, the opportunity to see any jealously never comes. Tomoyo always finds some way to be with Sakura, even if Sakura doesn't know it. Syaoran doesn't say anything until the last episode, so we also don't get to see airtime of the effect on Tomoyo when Syaoran and Sakura are together after a while. We only ever see Syaoran and Sakura right as they are getting together, which is the second movie.

Originally Posted by Hyatt

My least favorite character (not "hate", mind you) is Tomoyo. She's a main character, yet so much of her unique characterization revolves around Sakura. When you take away her love for Sakura and her way of expressing it, you're left with not all that much, to be honest.

I'll be honest, I completely missed your post here because otherwise I would have quoted it in my other post.
This plays into what I said about Tomoyo being fake. Who is she if Sakura is not there? Even Meilin may have more substance to her and she's an anime-only character! So much of Tomoyo's character is being Sakura's shadow, she's not really "real" in her own way. Yes, you can say that she is very intuitive/observant and kind and a good advice giver, but Eriol and even Rika are that too and more. We see Tomoyo since episode 1, but there isn't a lot to say about her by herself for the airtime that she has. By comparison, the minor characters have their own standing storylines and personalities and they get far less airtime. The only character who may have less to be said about him/her may be Spinel but we see so little of him.
Even Tomoyo's liking of video editing: does Tomoyo actually like doing that or does she only like it because she is editing footage of Sakura?

[Hyatt]

Originally Posted by MirrorCard

It did look like you were talking to yourself until I figured out that moderator action must have taken place.

It's a bit more complicated than that; Kero_Faria has been banned for a while, but only recently have her posts disappeared. I don't know what's going on, exactly, or whether Tahsin's posts will also disappear.

I mention "other CLAMP couples" because most of CLAMP's work besides CCS and a few other manga are rather messed up. Their forever-on-hiatus masterpiece was the king of gone-to-hell-ness until TRC turned dark, and that's what most people think of when they think of CLAMP couples.

Originally Posted by MirrorCard

Although I think her feelings for Sakura are just friendship (friends can be really close), never does she twitch when it means that Li may cut in on Tomoyo's time with Sakura.

Actually, Tomoyo does love Sakura, and not being jealous ("Sakura's happiness is my happiness") is the whole point of that unrequited relationship. CLAMP's words on the subject: http://usomitai.livejournal.com/68511.html

Originally Posted by MirrorCard

Even Tomoyo's liking of video editing: does Tomoyo actually like doing that or does she only like it because she is editing footage of Sakura?

I think the message we're supposed to get is that it's because she's filming Sakura. Just like her love of costuming and her matchmaking (especially her matchmaking).

[MirrorCard]

I'm going to take the Tomoyo and Sakura topic to a new thread since we're going to go off topic with that.

Anyone who wants to post about that, don't reply to this thread, do so here: http://superkad.co.uk/CCR/Forums/showthread.php?p=15194

Originally Posted by Hyatt

I mention "other CLAMP couples" because most of CLAMP's work besides CCS and a few other manga are rather messed up. Their forever-on-hiatus masterpiece was the king of gone-to-hell-ness until TRC turned dark, and that's what most people think of when they think of CLAMP couples.

TRC turned dark?! How dark? I only saw the first couple of episodes.

Originally Posted by Hyatt

I think the message we're supposed to get is that it's because she's filming Sakura. Just like her love of costuming and her matchmaking (especially her matchmaking).

I like how you emphasize her matchmaking. It makes me wonder if Tomoyo is actually manipulating. I mentioned before that Meilin takes control of S/S away from Tomoyo, vindicating it from being seen as a brewing of Tomoyo's ideas and that S/S is really seen in the eyes of the other characters and not just Tomoyo. The more I think about that, it makes me think that Tomoyo may not be so innocent. She and Eriol seem to be taken from the same page, so to speak, except Eriol is more active in his interaction with the characters than Tomoyo is. however, Tomoyo seems like the kind of person who may walk into a moment when she sees the opportunity and say something the right way to plant the idea into someone's head and therefore nudge the situation in the way she wants it to happen. Dubious. Thoughts?